Lucid Moon interview
series #2:
Berkeley,
California performance artist Frank Moore interviewed by Ralph
Haselmann Jr.
The
following preface and interview were conducted on Monday, September
13 and Wednesday September 15, 1999 between Lucid Moon Editor
Ralph Haselmann Jr. and Berkeley performance artist Frank Moore,
his partner Linda Mac and fellow artist and roomie Michael LaBash.
Frank publishes the highly regarded underground poetry/arts
magazine The Cherotic (R)evolutionary zine and also has an extensive
website called Luver (Love Underground Vision Radio) http://www.luver.com
and Eroplay Home Page (http://eroplay.com). Visit them soon!
Frank was born with Cerebral Palsey and can't use 99% of his
body. He can't talk or use his arms or legs and is in a wheelchair
and needs constant care. He communicates with a pointer attached
to a headband and points to a ouija board-like letter/word board
which he invented in his teens. Despite all this, he has managed
to create paintings, videos, websites, an internet radio station,
essays, poems and performance art and has created a society
of like-minded poets, artists and musicians centering around
his shamanistic performance art.
Preface: Monday September 13, 1999
(Ralphy) Frank I don't want to sound like a complete idiot at
the interview on wednesday, so can i ask a very personal question?
You don't have to answer it, please don't be mad at me, i have
a childlike curiosity
(frank-eatingbeans) frank also spent a day on neil young's yacht
(Ralphy) but can you experience erections and orgasms?
(Ralphy) I know Christopher Reeves can
(Ralphy) he was a talented actor and i felt awful when he became
paralyzed
(Ralphy) cool about neil young
(frank-eatingbeans) see Linda Feesey's film of me and linda
having sex at the toronto performance
(Ralphy) great!
(Ralphy) glad you can have sex.
(Ralphy) i haven't had much sex, all my time goes into my mag!
(frank-eatingbeans) or check out my videos OUT OF ISOLATION
and EROTIC PLAY on eroplay.com
(Ralphy) is it important to preface the interview for those
who don't know by mentioning your cerebral palsey?
(Ralphy) it might relate to your becoming a shaman
(Ralphy) i re-read your Art Of A Shaman essay over the weekend
and was moved
(frank-eatingbeans) in fact, i may have more sex than most people!
(Ralphy) great!
(Ralphy) I'm happy for you
(Ralphy) i'm socially retarded, only had two real girlfriends
and no boyfriends
(Ralphy) :)
(Ralphy) I might meet Sharon McNulty this year, she's in my
Lucid Moon magazine all the time and we talk for an hour each
week on the phone
(frank-eatingbeans) i wil talk about any thing you want to talk
about during the interview
(Ralphy) great I admire your openness
(Ralphy) I won't ask anything embarassing
(Ralphy) will concentrate on your art and shamanism and nudity
and censorship
(frank-eatingbeans) i don't get embarrassed
(Ralphy) linda and michael can chime in too if they want
(baby-mac) ok
(Ralphy) I have a couple questions for each of them or should
I just interview you?
(Ralphy) i wanted to clarify, i'm confused, are you and Linda
married or just living together?
(Ralphy) free love is all that matters
(Ralphy) i'm scared to get married
(frank-eatingbeans) linda and i are not legally married,
(frank-eatingbeans) but we've been partners since 1975...
(frank-eatingbeans) and mikee has been our partner also since
1988
(frank-eatingbeans) so it's the three of us together
(Ralphy) great!
(Ralphy) another dumb question/personal, are you a threesome?
(frank-eatingbeans) yes we are
(Ralphy) oh you answered it already! great as long as you are
happy it's nobody's business
(Ralphy) you are free spirits and we need more of that
(Ralphy) maybe we should use this as part of the interview!
:)
(frank-eatingbeans) yes we should....
(baby-mac) mikee is going to save all of this now and we'll
send it to you
(baby-mac) you
(Ralphy) i must say i've always wanted both a girlfriend and
a boyfriend, am afraid sharon won't go for that!
(baby-mac) maybe we should save the rest of the interview for
wednesday
(Ralphy) greta!
(Ralphy) great!
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(Ralphy) greta garbo! :)
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(Quit: Leaving)
(Ralphy) hi y2k, love yer name!
(Ralphy) bye y2k!
(Ralphy) sure we can save rest, this was a good preface
(baby-mac) frank is asking, is sharon your girlfriend?
(Ralphy) i hope so, maybe some day! :)
(Ralphy) we love and admire each other's poetry and friendship,
but have yet to meet. She's starting a poetry magazine named
Arthur, after Arthur Rimbaud whom we both love and admire.
(Ralphy) okay see you Wednesday
(Ralphy) i hope you don't think the quality of my mag sucks!
I mean some of the poems aren't great but I want to give a voice
to a lot of people
(Ralphy) i printed Noni Howard in August issue, in the mail
today on its way to you
(Ralphy) she's great
(frank-eatingbeans) i love what you are doing w/lucid moon
(Ralphy) thanks so much, your opinion means alot to me! :)
(Ralphy) this song Mary is actually a Pete Townshend demo
(frank-eatingbeans) lucid moon is like THE EVERGREEN REVIEW
(Ralphy) it was supposed to be the lead ballad for the album
(baby-mac) this is a great tape ralphy...it will get a lot of
air play
(Ralphy) never seen the evergreen review,have to look it up
in poet's market--is it still around?
(Ralphy) great!
(frank-eatingbeans) it was out in the 1960s
(Ralphy) love the next song Baby Don't You Do It-- a Marvin
Gaye rocker
(Ralphy) oh
(frank-eatingbeans) there's a book out THE EVERGREEN REVIEW
READER that you can probably find in used book stores
(Ralphy) was it phoptocopied, kitchen table or professionally
printed?
(frank-eatingbeans) a compilation of the REVIEW
(frank-eatingbeans) it was a monthly...professionally printed
(Ralphy) i wish i had money to pro print LM
(frank-eatingbeans) it was put out by GROVE PRESS
(Ralphy) it would be nice to have a circulation of 1000 instead
of just 100
(Ralphy) what is TCR circulation if you don't mind me asking?
(Ralphy) hi choo! or achoo!
(Ralphy) oh well
(Ralphy) hope i don't sound too nosy asking what the circulation
of TCR is!
(Ralphy) hi great white
(Ralphy) oh well
(Ralphy) it would be great if in the future we could just join
the chat room and the luver station would automatically play
out of the speakers! Better technology!
(baby-mac) we're sitting down to lunch ralphy, so we'll be away
for a bit
(Ralphy) okay
(Ralphy) so what's the circulation of TCR if you don't mind
me asking? I have zine envy and love your zine!
(baby-mac) we print out 500 copies of each issue when it first
comes out
(Ralphy) wow!
(baby-mac) if we run out we xerox more
(Ralphy) i'm gonna chill out for a while, thanks for talking
to me, i know i talk too much
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(Ralphy) can you save this part of the chat as an e-mail too?!
I know it's a pain in the ass, but i like to read stuff like
this!
(Ralphy) hi gonzo
(gonzo) Hi there, been listening loved the Who stuff
(Ralphy) great!
(Ralphy) love this overture to tommy too
(baby-mac) hi gonzo!
(Ralphy) your show starts next, right?
(Ralphy) baby-mac, can you save this chat up to here please?
Session Start: Wed Sep 15 18:21:51 1999
*** Now talking in #lucidmoon
*** Disconnected Session Close: Wed Sep 15 18:22:03 1999 Session
Start: Wed Sep 15 18:22:36 1999
*** Now talking in #lucidmoon chatroom
*** Ralphy
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#lucidmoon
(Ralphy) yippee! I'ma here! can we keep this chat room forever?
(baby-mac) yea!!!
(baby-mac) you did it!!!!
(Ralphy) you are so knowledgeable! thanks so much!
(baby-mac) yes you can....but if you don't use it, it will disappear
(frank) hi
(Ralphy) how fast will it disappear?
(baby-mac) we think you have to use it every 2 weeks
(Ralphy) hi Frank!
(frank) ready
(Ralphy) okay, it takes a minute to type in my first q
(baby-mac) ok
(Ralphy) Here we go
(Ralphy) So Frank, how and why did you become a Shaman and performance
artist
(frank) and 5 mins for me to answer
(Ralphy) no problem!
(frank) I became sucked into performance not to tell stories,
not to paint pictures for others to look at, not even to reveal
something about myself or about the state of things, and certainly
not for fame or fortune. It was simply the best way that I saw
to create the intimate community which I as a person needed
and that I thought society needed as an alternative to the personal
isolation....My personal roots are in the idealism of the 60's.
That was when I broke out of personal physical isolation. I
looked for a way to bring about the ideals for me and for society
as a whole. The normal channels obviously would not work for
me. So all I had were my fantasies. I read novels like The Magus
and Steppenwolf. I started wanting to create other alternative/altered
realities just like the magicians in those novels. I read the
Beat writers and the French Surrealists, Lenny Bruce and Mort
Sahl.
(Ralphy) When did you meet Linda Mac and Michael LaBash...
(Ralphy) I think Linda is great with your performances and michael's
wild sexual penis and vigina art complements your performance
art and essays...i wish I could pay michael to paint a mural
in my home, and do my Lucid Moon website! Ok go.
(frank) i met Linda when i went into a travel agency
(baby-mac) that was in 1975, i had lived in Berkeley for 1 year
(frank) Linda, would you tell that story
(baby-mac) frank drove into the travel agency, he was in a motorized
wheelchair that he could drive himself. Using his pointer on
his head, attached to a hard hat. i worked at the travel agency,
as a travel agent. i had never talked to anyone who looked like
frank and thought to myself "i hope he doesn't come up to me!!"
(frank) and mikee came to my performance 10 years ago
(baby-mac) of course, he came right up to me! i was working
behind a counter, like the ticket counters in airports, so i
had to lean over the counter to read frank's letter board. i
never wore a bra, and had on a very loose fitting dress and
he could look right down the dress as i leaned over to read
his board
(Ralphy) :)
(baby-mac) he had come in to get ticket info, which i think
i gave him
(don't remember that part), but he said, hey you'd be great
in this play i'm directing
(baby-mac)
(there was no play as it turns out, but frank says he would
have created one if necessary!)
(ralph) lol!
(baby-mac) i was immediately flattered
(baby-mac) he said he'd have someone call me to set up a time
for us to get together to talk. he did, and we got together
(baby-mac) my experience of that first meeting:
(frank) he was the lead singer in a band....and one of his groupie
gave him my writings
(Ralphy) Michael was the singer?
(baby-mac) yes he was
(Ralphy cool, what was the name of band?
(baby-mac) the band, called at time, "Mr. Dog", was later to
become Counting Crows
(Ralphy seriously or joking?
(baby-mac) very serious
(Ralphy) wow!
(baby-mac) they were managed by bill graham
(Ralphy) I have first Counting Crows album
(baby-mac) mikee was a yuppie, very slim with a fancy haircut
(baby-mac) frank takes full credit for the transformation!!
(Ralphy) and you all three cliqued as a team?
(Ralphy) clicked
(frank) he said reading them made him want more from life
(frank) he became my student
(Ralphy) great. use a ...if more words to answer or a . if ending
so i know, thanks
(frank) .....
(Ralphy) were you teaching seminars in Shamanism at the time,
and what is shamanism?
(Ralphy) or were you teaching performance art?
(Ralphy) I'm new to this, please don't think I'm rushing you,
take time
(frank) shamanism is going beyond the normal frame of reality
and bring back something new. that's what art does to.....or
should do....
(frank) i've done workshops...but mainly teach 1 on 1.
(Ralphy) ok
(Ralphy) The obligatory Jim Morrison question!
(Ralphy) Jim Morrison believed he was a shaman and in his poetry
book Wilderness said that "Between childhood, boyhood, adolescence
and manhood
(maturity) there should be...
(frank) i'm him!
(Ralphy) Lol!
(Laughing out loud!)
(frank) you've found me out
(Ralphy) ...there should be sharp lines drawn w/ tests, deaths,feats,
rites, stories, songs and judgement." Do you subscribe to Jim's
philosophy...and were you influenced by him as a shaman, someone
to emulate?.
(Ralphy) or was jim just full of shit?!
(frank) the magic screens
(frank) only as a preformer...
(frank) he didn't understand the magic...but the magic used
him
(Ralphy) he went overboard with alcohol and drugs and it destroyed
the magic?
(frank) no
(Ralphy) how did the magic use him?
(frank) to change people, society, etc...to take peoople into
altered states
(Ralphy) more about altered states in a minute...
(frank) magic is dangerous
(Ralph) You mentioned magic and you wrote a piece called The
Magical Cave Lovers. What is The Cave in your performance?.
(frank) When humans started living in caves, they did their
rituals and wall-paintings in the bowels of the caves where
no one could see. The purpose was an active change -- a good
hunt, sexual power, pleasing the gods, etc. Art was not for
watching. The cave artists operated in this magical way. Their
art was not for looking at. This is why they did their rituals
and paintings in very dangerously inaccessible, pitch-black
bowels of caves. The purpose of these paintings and rituals
was to magically effect...In reality, a large percentage of my public
ritual work is made up of private and secret sections. Some of
these private, secret sub-rituals take place before the performance,
or within a hidden cave, locked box or vault, away from the
experience and knowing of the audience. What happens within
these secret sub-rituals greatly influences what happens in
the public performances, even though there are no physical or
linear links between the public and the secret sub-rituals.
(Ralphy) so the cave in your performance is like an added feature,
with the expectations of the audience for what is behind the
cave adding to the mystery and seduction of the performance?
(frank) What happens within these secret sub-rituals greatly
influences what happens in the public performances, even though
there are no physical or linear links between the public and
the secret sub-rituals. When the secret sub-ritual fails to
reach the taboo-breaking intensity, the public ritual falls
flat. Kristine Ambrosia has taken this aspect of the nonlinear
principle further by performing secret rituals alone on a mountain
top or in a hidden room while her public performance goes on
many miles away. Other sections of my public performance are
private because they are only experienced within the mind and/or body
of the person, or between the bodies of two people. I have several
techniques I use to achieve this. For a large portion of the
performances, the people are blindfolded and are directed not
to speak. In this way, what she experiences comes without the
influences of others. She is taken alone into caves without
knowing what others have done or how they have reacted. She
is told she can do what others have done or how they have reacted.
She is told she can do whatever she wants, but not to reveal
what happens within the room. This creates a freedom from taboos
and from outside pressures.
(frank) writers always write in caves
(Ralphy) You just came back from a 48+ hour performance in Toronto,
which you describe elsewhere in this issue. What was the feeling
coming off of the performance? Was it like a high or trance
or alltered state, was it transformative?
(frank) for me, it is normal
(Ralphy) but for your audience, they may be experiencing something
transformative for first time?
(frank) yep
(Ralphy) i hope these questions aren't too obvious or stupid!
(frank) nope
(Ralphy) I loved the movie Altered States , from the book by
Paddy Cheyefsky...
(Ralphy) Is there something to be learned...
(frank) 1 of my faves
(Ralphy) ...from altered states of consciousness? Can we grow
as a society by individually or collectively altering our states
of mind through performance, sleep deprivation or drugs?
(Ralphy) studies show that humans have a biological need to
get fucked up every now and then!
(Ralphy) it's a growth process.
(frank) all of those things are just tools
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(Ralphy) toni, this is private chat about shamanism and rituals!
(Ralphy) i hope you don't think we are rude if we ignore you!!
:)
(Ralphy) we are conducting an interview for my mag!
(Ralphy) you may listen if you like!
(frank) it' ain't "get fucked up"
(Ralphy) I know Frank, it was a joke sort of!
(Ralphy) But there is something to be learned from altered states
of consciousness and we need more research...
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(Ralphy) instead of drug wars.
(frank) it's going outside of the normal
(Ralphy) war on drugs i mean.
(frank) of today for evolution
(Ralphy) I don't take drugs and I know you and Linda and Michael
don't...
(frank) but we did
(Ralphy) but I did have three nervous breakdowns where i was
drinking heavily and getting very little sleep for days on end...and
i had mind-blowing dreams and hallucinations...
(frank) which you use
(Ralphy) I know my mind definitely expanded and some brain cells
were lost but a regrowth of new cells occurredand I came out
the better for it...I have ten years of wild poetry to show
for it and a new perspective and awe of the human mind and body
and dreams...
(Ralphy) Do dreams fascinate you and influence your work? And
do dreams inform Michael LaBash's wild sexual drawings?
(frank) no...because i live dreams
(Ralphy) Have you ever read Carlos Castenada's books and were
you influenced by him?...
(frank) no...it just spews out of mikee
(Ralphy) I read his first book The Teachings Of Don Juan and
his last book the Art Of Dreaming...
(frank) read them. learned more than Carlos did
(Ralphy) The last book teaches you to look at the palms of your
hands when you are dreaming, so that you are aware you are in
a dream.. Then you can have power overe your dreams and do whatever
you want, sleep with whomever you want, be rich and powerful,
go anywhere.
(Ralphy) Lol!
(Ralphy) I read them and was intrigued.
(frank) i rest my case
(Ralphy) The title of your Toronto performance was called Dying
Is Sexy...
(Ralphy) Why is dying sexy and what did you mean by that?
(frank) have to come to find out
(Ralphy) okay I will someday! Just three more q's if you don't
mind...
(frank) btw, mikee didn't think he could draw
(Ralphy) Mikee is awesome!
(frank) when he started with me
(frank) i didn't know that
(Ralphy) You invented the term Eroplay, which means intense
physical playing and touching of oneself and others, but not
necessarilly sexual intercourse, as a way to communicate and
release intense energy or forces...
(baby-mac) mikee had gone to art school...
(baby-mac) and his teacher told him that he couldn't draw...
(Ralphy) ...You describe it as a happy, child-like playful attitude
towards life that comes from such play...
(frank) eroplay
(baby-mac) then one of his first bosses
(he's a graphic artist)...
(Ralphy) I'm listening, keep going frank
(baby-mac) told him that he couldn't draw
(baby-mac) so mikee thought he couldn't draw
(frank) yep
(baby-mac) but since i didn't know he couldn't draw, i had him
drawing my posters, etc
(Ralphy) well, i think he's the best artist out there
(aw shucks!)
(baby-mac) when i asked him, three years into it, when he first
realized he could draw...i
(frank) thought he would say when he was 12 or 13 years old,
instead he said after he did that third major drawing for me
(frank)!!!
(Ralphy) Was Eroplay invented by you as a way to compensate
for your physical condition of cerebral palsey and your intense
loneliness and isolation while growing up, and why is eroplay
integral to your performance art?...Why is nudity, eroplay and
sexuality so important to your art?...
(Ralphy) other than the fact that they are fun!
(frank) god, no
(Ralphy) hey this is my pearl jam tape playing! great! two more
q maybe if you don't mind
(Ralphy) are you done with your last a?
(Ralphy) Frankie?
(baby-mac) no
(baby-mac) he's still working on it
(Ralphy) cool take time
(Ralphy) i feel relaxed and i hope you think this is a decent
interview!
(frank) test
(Ralphy) Lol!
(frank) People always say they like the work because it is strong,
but I should get over my obsession with sex and nudity, and
get on to more important issues; I should not get "stuck" in
one vision. What they do not realize is what they like about
the work, the strength, comes from being committed to a single
vision, no matter what the current trends and fashions are.
I cannot imagine more important issues than sex and freedom
symbolized by nudity. But, as this paper shows, these are not
my ultimate focus. Sex and nudity are powerful digging tools
to reach the intimate community. By limiting the tools of art,
art itself is limited.
(frank) I have always been a very physical and sexual person.
This was heightened by my early physical isolation. In the early
70's when I was not yet out of my sexual isolation, I observed
as an interested outsider that free sex
(confused with free love) was not working. It wasn't making
my hippie friends happy. This observation was against my philosophy
of freedom. But I could not deny the facts. I started looking
for new ways of relating and of touching. I was looking for
a new free love. My performances, both public events and the
private nonfilms, were my research, my experiments.
(frank) I experimented in using the excited, aroused, pleasurable
energy in the context of art, of playing, relationship-building
-- not in the context of sex.
(frank) i'm getting tired
(Ralphy) ok one more q?
(frank) ok
(Ralphy) You were targeted by Jesse Helms in the early 1990's
for your erotic performances that broke taboos. I would imagine
that your opinion of Jesse Helms is similiar to Todd Rundgren,
who wrote a song called "Fuck Jesse"!...How has censorship changed
your life? Have you become more fasmous/infamous as a result
of censorship?
(Ralphy) And lastly., can you take performance art/eroplay to
another level? Don't have to answer today if tired.
(frank) Jesse is the fall guy...fuck the liberals...
(frank) i haven't been censored...i don't allow it!...
(Ralphy) great!
(frank) Helms helped me...
(Ralphy) ...as all censorship backfires.
(frank) People sometimes ask, "Where is your work heading? What
do you want to do next?" It is not my work. It is not my choice.
For me, it is not a question of a next thing. It is a growing,
evolving vision. I am carried along in this vision. A performance
does not have a beginning or an end. It is just a tiny bit of
the vision. The vision, it braids around itself, flowing on.
I do not know where the vision is taking me. I have not been
down this vision before...
(Ralphy) life is one long ongoing performance, a series of dreams
as Bob Dylan said.
(frank) One thing's for sure. We humans are not the end of evolution.
(frank) i'm done
(frank) how was that
(Ralphy) great! okay...
(Ralphy) let me just say that I think what you are doing with
your performance art/eroplay, your magazinre The Cherotic Revoultioary
and Luver radio website is terrific...
(frank) thanks
(Ralphy) I really appreciate you taking the time to do this
exhaustive interview, hope it wasn't too much of a strain...thanks
for your time and friendship...hope you thought it went well...
(Ralphy) what do you think? Was it ok?
(frank) of course
(Ralphy) you can save all this as e-mail text and mail it to
me now, I really appreciate everything you three have done for
me over the last couple of years. I have come out of my shell
and met wonderful poets and artists like you and it has enriched
my life. Thanks again and goodnight!
(frank) shucks
(Ralphy) :) ai
(Ralphy) ai means love in Japanese i think.
(baby-mac) we'll email it to you tonight
(Ralphy) so mikee, do your magic and save text!
(frank) but i need to piss
(Ralphy) great!
(Ralphy) thanks again!
(Ralphy) go to the loo!
(frank) bye
(Ralphy) I will listen and chat in your room if you all aren't
petered out, i love this pearl jam tape
(playing on Luver Radio now). bye!
(Ralphy) or I'll just listen.
(baby-mac) we'll be here
(Ralphy) bye.
(Ralphy) thanks Frank, Linda and Michael!
*** Ralphy
(lucidmoon@131.morristown-21-22rs.nj.dial-access.att.net) has
left #lucidmoon
*** baby-mac
(mac@adsl-63-192-39-194.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has left #lucidmoon
Session Close: Wed Sep 15 21:49:44 1999
To log onto the Luver chat room, using Windows 98, click on
Start at bottom of screen gray bar, then Programs, then Mirc,
then Mirc32, then x on About Mirc, then fill out name, e-mail
address form, nickname, alternate nickname, click on connect
to Mirc server, then click on #Luver for Frank Moore's Luver
Radio chatroom
(open all day). Check us out!
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